Spiritually Grounded | Reclaiming Something Bigger than Ourselves

I think that we have to talk about this because

so often, you know, it kind of reminds me of like, inbox zero.

You know, like a lot of people are trying to like, get their emails to zero.

I feel like in spirituality they're trying to get their thoughts to zero.

that is not

reality.

that's not

realistic.

That is not realistic at all.

And you know, if someone finds the answer that let me know, but I, But really the,

the, like you said, the intention is about being aware of what was already there

before we were doing any of these things.

It's just that we become, we, we grow in our, awareness and we grow in our ability.

Notice it with humor and compassion and you know, Oh, look at that, you

know, self criticism is here again.

And just connect back in with what's important with us.

So we don't, don't resist all of those thoughts.

We don't judge ourselves it and all that.

It's actually just about then going, Oh, look at all that content.

And then connecting with, with what's required from, from us In

that moment.

If, you know, there is something deep inside of

you that is yearning to be seen, to be known and to have expression.

If there's something you need to reclaim and remember maybe it's your

power or your purpose, your gifts.

This is the podcast for you.

Welcome to reclaiming ourselves.

I'm your host, Sonya Stattmann and I'm honored to have three amazing

co-hosts Laura Shook-Guzman Belinda Haan And Emily Soccorsy here with

me on this journey to self discovery every week, we're gonna help you

unravel And remember what it means to reclaim yourself to own who you are to

recognize your innate worth

and greatness.

Now, this podcast is a deep dive into self-development healing and empowerment.

So hold on.

Here we go.

Hi, and welcome back to Reclaiming Ourselves.

I am super excited because this week we're diving into actually one of

my favorite topics, and I'm with

Belinda Hahn, who is definitely

one of my favorite co-hosts.

And so we are gonna

have a really

awesome chat and exploration around what we're coining as grounded spirituality.

Okay, so this is a big one to unpack.

Belinda, how are you doing?

Yeah, so it is a big one to unpack ,but I'm really

excited to give it, a go with you.

I think it, yeah, I'm really excited

about this conversation.

It's a real passion area for me as well.

Yeah.

And so maybe let's start with talking

about what spirituality is, at least what perspective that we

wanna look at it

through so that you you know, Belinda and I were

talking a little bit before the episode

about

how

people often frame spirituality, and I think we look at

it

from a very different viewpoint.

So maybe let's start there.

How would you define spirituality?

Yes.

Well it's, it's such a

big topic and it's really one that is so personal and private,

so it's really hard to sort of,

Definition around, but I think there's a

lot of confusion and you know, we've all got a lot of history,

you know, potentially with religion and all of that sort of thing.

Um, so I might

just actually use Brene Brown's words to describe what I mean by

spirituality, cuz I think she does a much better job than I could.

Um, so spirituality is recognizing and celebrating that we are all

inextricably connected to each other by power greater than all of

us.

And that our

connection to that power end to one another is grounded in love and

compassion.

Practicing spirituality brings a sense of perspective, meaning,

and purpose to our lives.

I love that I think that really does provide

such a powerful viewpoint, right?

I mean, And I think that the things that have always stood out for me

in terms of that kind of definition around spirituality is that

it's something

bigger

than ourselves.

Yes,

So,

you know, I think that's a really important piece, And it's our

relationship to that bigger

thing, right?

So it's how we view it, how we respond with it, how we relate with it.

And it very much is centered around connectedness.

Yes, absolutely.

And it, doesn't have to involve religion at all.

So, you know, and the way that I look at it in terms of my

own practical experience of

this, it's sort of connecting with something.

Bigger than myself, and also

uncovering the layers that prevent me from experiencing my true nature, which is

all already whole, perfect and complete.

Yes.

I love that because I guess

we can't really talk about spirituality without, also

talking about our essential self.

Right.

and so let's kind of unpack even what that

is, because, you know, I talk a lot about the essential self or the authentic self,

or the innate self, but, you know, how would you define the essential self?

it's really how we were born.

We were born these pure innocent.

Whole beings.

And

then as I think I've mentioned before, life just throws a

whole lot of things our way.

And you know, we innocently and naturally

create defenses and protection to be able to survive and to be

able to live in, in the world.

And, so this happens obviously in childhood and then

also in adulthood as well.

you know, mostly we're not even.

Aware of these kind of defenses and protections, but what we

might experience are behaviors.

In ourselves that we're not happy with or, you know, we are constantly

hooked by, um, our conditioning fear and all, all of that sort of thing.

but then, you know, at, at, at a certain point, we get a call to

come home to that essential self.

And, and in my experience and in the, in what I've witnessed with

others as well, it's really born.

Intense suffering or difficulty that that call really comes forward.

And maybe we get lots of small, subtle messages to come home to that essential

self, but we, you know, are too busy or distracted or, you know, just doing

our thing, life is happening and kids and everything like that, that we can't

either act or we can't hear that call.

And then sometimes it takes a big knock on the head to, to realize that

you know, it's time to come back home.

Yeah.

You know, And I think it's really important to say too, that real

spirituality.

Includes our connection to our essential self, right?

Because I think if you think about sort of what a lot of us

traditionally, you know, looked at as spirituality, so religions, you

know, oftentimes they can shame our

essential self right?

There's a lot of shaming in certain,

um, religions or

certain indoctrinations, certain

doctrines.

And so, You know, when we are

ashamed, we disconnect from our essential self.

And you

know, I think it's important to that when we talk about spirituality,

you know, there has to be this connection to your essential self.

so it's not just practicing a doctrine or

repeating something that someone else has taught you to repeat.

It is your actual connection to your essential self and

something bigger than yourself.

Yes, absolutely.

And I, I think that personally, you know, I've sort of seen that perhaps

being on the spiritual journey means an end to all suffering, and that

these teachers have somehow, like, got it all sorted and that they don't

suffer and they're, you know, you know, always compassionate and all of that.

And, and then you realize actually the journey is actually

personal and private and it.

Actually about connecting to our central self and I think that some people get

confused about that because they think, Oh, That's a selfish kind of spirituality.

But actually if we are connected to our central self, then.

Everything naturally happens.

We're naturally more compassionate.

We're naturally more present with others, so that through that inner

journey, it actually has outer ripples that just make the hugest

difference to the people that we love.

Yes.

I love that.

Okay, so we've kind of created at least a sort of reference point with what

we're talking about around spirituality.

Let's maybe unpack and talk about why.

, this is important, right?

Why does it matter that we talk about spirituality,

that we reclaim spirituality, whatever that looks like for us.

Why do we need to have a whole topic on this, right?

I think that's an important thing because some people might listen to

this and be like, Ah, I don't really care about that, or, It's not really

important for me, or It doesn't really matter to me, but why should we?

, What doesn't matter, right?

And how can we share with people some of the values and

the importance of this topic?

Yes, Yes, Well, you know, in terms of

my own journey, I, I really feel like the reason

why this has been important is I've had this really strong drive and

intention.

to

live a full,

rich, and meaningful life.

and so that has always been really from a young age, my motivation.

And I guess I've then realized that connecting to a spiritual path was.

the way for me to sort of be able to fulfill that and also do all of the

psychological work that I've done as well.

Um, but from a science perspective.

So, um, and I know that a lot of people really value that, you

Discovered the spiritual part of

our brain so that is when we are

connecting to something higher and bigger than ourselves and

It doesn't have to

be a connection to God through prayer.

That that could be one

of

the things.

It can even be a sporting

event.

And you know, I know in America and

Australia

as well, big sporting

fans,

Yeah.

People are gonna love hearing this.

You're validating their

passion,

absolutely.

So that is a connection that is spirituality and um, and it's something

that people don't probably think about, but that's actually that sense of

just openness and space and spacious and connection beyond ourselves as

well.

And you know, being in nature.

, you know,

when you're in nature it can just be that expansion because you realize that

nature's just there doing its thing.

It's sort of not really phased by, by what's going on.

Um, so that's that.

And in terms of the benefits of scientific benefits of spirituality, we

have increased health outcomes, greater psychological wellbeing, less depression.

Less hypertension, less stress, You know, our ability to sort of deal with

stress is, you know, so much, greater.

So they're the sort of scientific kind of validations, I guess, of, of connecting to

something higher.

But to me, you know,

in terms of the

reclaiming ourselves, I have.

Been on the reclaiming ourselves journey for about 20 years.

and I have reclaimed myself and take action towards reclaiming

myself to what I think Gabriel Matte says, the secondary self

So the, the self that I constructed myself to be, which was not the essential self.

And so it just took me down so many rabbit holes of thinking that this is the path.

This is who I'm meant to be.

This is how I'm showing up in the world.

But it was really based on a false self.

And as I've become more aligned to my essential self, then life is It just has,

um, a, a greater alignment, You know, I still get hooked and have suffering

and all of that, but I feel much more

resourced to be

able to deal with that.

So that's sort of a practical reality.

Yes.

Yes.

And I

think that resource,

our ability to be able

to resource, right?

Laura and I have talked a lot about that in some of our previous podcasts

where, it's that source, right?

So our essential self is connected to that source.

Our spirituality is connected to that source, Whatever that

source looks like for you.

We need to resource

ourselves.

And so often what happens is if we, if we don't have a healthy spirituality,

if we don't feel the connectedness to something bigger than ourselves, and

we're in a disconnection with that.

We feel less

resourced, we feel more exhausted.

We feel more at the edge of burnout We like.

There's so many ways at which, you know, when we disconnect to

spirituality, when we disconnect to something bigger than

ourselves, we are disconnecting

to our innate power, our innate worthiness.

You know, who we were born to be.

And so I think that is such a key thing to recognize when

we talk about essential self.

And when we talk about connecting to something bigger,

they're one and the same.

They're, they're part of that same, thing.

That same arc, that same piece.

Because I think a lot of times when people think about reclaiming themselves,

they feel sometimes like they have to disconnect from everyone else.

Right.

Or disconnect from things that are bigger than themselves to hoard their energy.

Right.

So, so, you know, I wanna unpack this for a second cuz I think

this is really important, right?

There's this idea that we're, we're spending all our energy outside of us,

especially for women and moms and business owners and many other people like that.

And so we think that by disconnecting from everything we're going to

resource ourselves, but it's

actually the

opposite.

Yes, Absolutely.

And, as, and I know, that you and I both,

we absolutely love solitude and space to ourselves,

and part of my spiritual journey has been to

see that

life is the spiritual journey,

Yes.

of the things, you know, That all the content,

all the things that happen, that

is

the, practice of being able to meet

those moments.

You know, and it's sometimes so

difficult and you know, I've had so many fantasies about just going on retreat

on my own because then everything's gonna be fine because I'm gonna be

resourced and I just have to look after myself.

Yeah, but you know

what's so

interesting, Belinda, like, and tell me if you have the same experience.

the thing is, I can be with myself and be disconnected or I can be

with myself and be connected, right?

So my best, most expansive times, the times that I'm connected to my essential

self and my spiritual self, right?

Those are times I might.

Still be alone, but like you said, I'm in nature, I'm connected to nature.

I'm looking at life through this really

expansive and connected lens.

So I might still be literally physically by myself, but I'm fully connected

and I can also disconnect, right?

I can, I can be in a Netflix binge, I can, you know, be in this place

where I'm totally sheltered and I'm not feeling connected to anything.

and so I am physically, you know, Separated and spiritually separated.

And so you know, it is, it's not about being alone or being with people,

it's about the, spirit at which you are alone or the spirit at which

you

are

with people.

Yes, absolutely.

And as we'll talk about and forgetting And

remembering, it's also, it's also navigating all of that as well.

you

know the connection, disconnection and all of all of that.

And

what I've really

found has been the secret source that I've really

only started to

embody this year is compassion.

and I think that that is the secret source for

everything, including

that as spiritual growth.

Because what has happened up

until this

year really is that in a way I've used my spiritual journey

as a way of avoiding.

The content that was

arising.

So,

you know, there's a

term called

spiritual bypassing,

where you

just access higher awareness and higher states and avoid

the

content.

Uh, the psychological and emotional content and

therefore, you know, not really,

Moving towards being a compassionate, present

That's

person, which is what I want.

and

and that was part, that was like full compassion to myself for doing

that because it was actually really painful being with myself, you know,

for a long time there was just so much flooding of emotional content.

And psychological content that arose.

So of course I wanted to go back into these blissful awareness states, but I

think that, um, that's where the, you know, once I sort of have started to

really embody and practice compassion, that has been the difference between

being able to be with myself in that open state versus having that

sort of real constriction

and disconnection.

Yeah.

Uh, I can so feel that.

And you know, for me, one of the things I've really struggled with is that a lot

of the spiritual communities I've tested out or I've been a part of so often,

they're practicing a lot of spiritual bypassing, are so often they're longing

not for the human interactions or a human connection or understanding how they work

or navigating what's coming up for them.

instead they're trying to achieve these high states of enlightenment

or these like they're trying to

escape, right?

It's

just like another form of escape.

And it's always drove me crazy cuz I've always said, I'm here for a reason.

Like I'm on this earth.

I'm present, I'm in a human form, I'm in a human body.

There's a reason for that and I think that, you know, we can use

that framework of like embodied spirituality or grounded spirituality

versus, you know, ungrounded

spirituality or.

Disembody.

Yeah,

disembodied, right?

Like, it's escapism.

It's just another thing.

I mean, and our ego is so

beautifully

smart.

You know, like I, I'm not one to say the ego is bad.

We need it, it has a proper place in our, in our experience, and it's

wonderfully smart in being able to take anything that we're using,

anything that we're practicing.

and use it for bypassing and use it to escape

and

use it to hurt people.

Right?

So, you

know,

so many of us have experienced, sometimes, in our spiritual places or

in our

spiritual communities, some of this going on.

And you know, for me, you know, especially growing

up in a lot of sort of

Christian communities, very

religious communities, I really

rejected all spirituality.

I was like, Okay, I'm done with all of this.

It's

incongruent.

There's really mean people, people aren't very embodied.

I didn't use those words, but, you know, I could feel

that and it, it took me a long time to come back to

understand that spirituality is not that

Yes.

exactly, And it's sort of always coming back to our intention about

why we're even bothering, You know, like, are we doing it to

feel better?

Which I honestly really feel like that was my intention for many years unconsciously,

Or are we doing it so that we can show up?

And make the most, like Mary Oliver talks about, what are you gonna do

with this one wild and precious life.

Like that to me is the intention of spirituality, is like, it's not

about, you know, in our next life being better or having a better life.

It's about this life and just really making the most of it.

And that is my

goal

and intention for even bothering.

Yes.

And I think really grounded spirituality, it

brings us to moral aliveness, right?

Like that's the, that's the piece.

it brings us to moral

aliveness, And there's no bypassing of the feelings.

It's, you're not sitting in bliss all the time.

You know, Even, you know, this is one of this.

The sort of challenges I've seen, even like with meditation, I love meditation.

I think it's beautiful.

And I have seen a lot of people practice meditation where they're all zen and

they're all like, Oh, I'm a meditator.

And then in their, the rest of their life, they're mean spirited.

They're not practicing compassion with themselves or others,

you know, they're judgemental.

Like, so it's this really interesting, reframe around it, right?

so that we can recognize that, first of all, it's always a practice.

So all of us are gonna be judgemental at times.

All of us are gonna be.

But owning that process and recognizing that embracing our

spirituality in a grounded or an embodied way is really about.

Being, like you said, with anything that surfaces, with any content that comes up,

and sometimes that will be blissful and

sometimes that will be torture

and it's just,

it's just being

with it.

Right?

Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

And I think it's you know, alarm

bells should be ringing if you're ever

in a spiritual community that.

Says this is the one way to, to do things, and then everything is

gonna be fine.

And you know, one of

the, one of the practical

ways of sort

of accessing

spirituality, I think, is practicing humility And realizing that we're all

flawed human beings and you know, that we.

Both strengths and limitations.

And by really sort of owning that and embodying that and realizing

that, it's not just me, because I definitely have gone towards the,

you know, everyone's better than me and I'm the

worst.

Um, but, you know, looking at a really

balanced

perspective and then that helps you to realize that.

Common humanity.

We are all flawed.

You know, um, Kristen Neff talks about being a compassionate mess, and I think

that just really resonates that we're all.

on this

journey.

There

is

no perfect all.

That's right.

There's no

perfect,

there's no having it all together.

There's no, you know, non messy, There's no organized way to do it all.

It's, it's a journey.

And, and I think that that's part of, you know, that connectedness

we talk about in spirituality is recognizing that we're not alone.

Recognizing that we're very much connected with other people.

And I think, I also see the opposite of that, right?

When we are comparing ourselves and disconnecting to other people

because we feel like, Oh, we're the only person experiencing this,

or We're the biggest loser here.

Or like, that's a way we're disconnected to our spiritual

realm, and it's a sign, right?

A sign that we need to reconnect to something bigger than souls.

Reconnect to that

essential nature,

reconnect to compassion, reconnect to this idea

that we're all in and together.

Yes, absolutely.

And one of the things that I really value about Yoga Nidra, which

I've trained in, is that they,

they talk

about, um, that we have pointers to that that come into our life pointers, to

our disconnection, if you like.

And they're just messengers.

They're just coming here.

So the messenger might be.

I'm

not good enough or I need more

time, or I have to do more.

I need to be more, I need to do things

differently.

That's actually just a pointer

that's sort of highlighting that we've disconnected from our central

self.

That they're all just conditioned kind of responses that can either be from

our

own conditioning, but also let's not

forget we sit in a society that's full of messages about how we should be and all

of that, like, it's literally just like a

little pointed to say, rather than, Oh my gosh, I'm feeling

this way of resisting, judging,

disconnecting from ourselves even further

by.

Self criticism and all of that, we

can just practice.

And it is a practice just going, Oh, isn't that interesting?

I've, I've disconnected.

What can I do from a compassionate perspective to support that reconnection,

to sort of come back to that wholeness that that already exists,

Mm.

of being.

Yeah, Yeah, I love that.

And I, I wanna kind of like pull a thread to something that I think a

lot about and I'd love to know kind of your perspective on it as well.

I teach a lot about, you know, sort of burnout or energy management and, you

know, one of the things I talk about is that we can't really compartmentalize

the different parts of ourselves, right?

So we have a spiritual part, we have an emotional part, we

have a mental part, we have a

physical part, and you know, a lot of people,

Try to compartmentalize all those pieces and so we, we deem that the spiritual

part might not be important, might not be something we need to think

about on a

daily basis.

Maybe we just do it once in a while and we don't recognize the

impact

that each one of

these parts has on the whole, right?

Like we, we

can't be

completely disconnected in our spiritual realm and then be fully

connected everywhere else, right?

It's like that disconnection.

Filters in and spills over into every area of our lives.

So what I see a lot, especially in working with leaders or business owners

is that a lot of time they focus on kind

of those

other three areas are really mostly the physical area and their mental

area and their spiritual area.

They kind of

just.

I don't know, put on hold or put not as a priority, and yet it's

impacting

and

affecting every other experience they're having in their lives.

And so

what do you

think about that?

Like, cuz I I think some of our listeners sometimes are gonna be

like, Oh, I don't know.

I don't know.

about this topic.

You know, tell

tell

us, you know, why this is

impactful for me right

now.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's such a, it's such a great question.

And what's sort of arising is, the, the practice of integrative

restoration yoga nidra, uh, has been so since so much benefit for

PTSD sufferers and all of that, and.

Bear with me when I sort of pull out the thread here is that you can have

all of our thoughts and emotions and everything arise, but by connecting

with the spiritual dimension of ourselves, we, we get to experience.

Our wholeness whilst we are experiencing the content of our lives.

And that has, that has been one of the most beautiful, um, bits

of feedback that's come from.

Yoga Nitra is that, um, these people that come back from war who have got so

much, um, trauma, they can connect with that innate wholeness that is unchanged

by anything that they've experienced or any action that they have done.

So to me, it's like the most resourceful and resilient practice

to deepen into this connection of

wholeness.

because no matter what we're experiencing, all of the fear and doubt

and everything will always come up.

And the ways that we feel like we've failed or imposter syndrome, all of

that is in our experience and we're not getting rid of that, but we can

hold it with a greater awareness and a greater sense of being held

yeah.

I love that.

It's like, I kind of see like the spiritual realm, like you're,

you know, as you're describing, it's like it's the container.

It's the container.

That can kind of hold everything and

one of the ways

that I define spirituality

is the way we make meaning of

things, right?

But it's different coming from the spiritual

realm than it is coming from our mental realm.

Now, our mind, our.

Thinking mind

wants to make a meaning out of everything.

But often those connections

are rooted in patterns.

They're rooted in false

beliefs.

They're, you know, the thinking mind holds kind of all those

false structures, right?

All

those.

Patterns of indoctrination that we've had.

And so when we're trying to make

meaning from that lower place, from the,

you know, thinking mind, the meaning is often false or the meaning is

not in surface to ourselves or the meaning is not true, right?

It's based on some small self we think we have or some definition

we

have versus when we're making

meaning from the spiritual self, from that bigger self and we're connected to our

real self and.

All things.

Then the meaning

we make is expansive, and the

meaning we make is more truthful, and I think

that's a really key point to this

process.

absolutely.

And as we increase our spiritual sensitivity, it becomes so obvious.

When we are operating from that conditioned response because we

feel constricted at jaws tied and, and our minds are just

going, going, going like this.

versus it just actually, it's almost like there's, there's so much neutrality

to it.

It's just like an equanimity of Yes.

Like it is, This is just it.

It's like, um, just coming home like that sense.

It's ordinary in a way, and, and also just that felt sense of yes.

Yeah, I agree.

I don't know.

You always feel at home when you're connected, like that's

part of that spirituality.

And, and also what I often

like to discern between spirituality and traditional religion or,

or, you know, and not everyone's experience of religion is the same.

So some people have a beautiful spiritual connection to their religion as

well, and other people don't.

So, you know, Not, not to make it one way or the other, but I think the

difference in the distinction is that when you are connected spiritually,

you are expanded, you are open, you feel connected to things you feel.

At peace with the world, right?

there is a sense of something that everything's okay, right?

There's this, you know, glorious feeling, and then sometimes in certain

religions or in certain people's experience with religion, they've had

experiences where they felt constricted.

They felt, You know, forced to do things or they felt like

they couldn't be themselves and that that is not spirituality.

And so I think, you know, it's good to kind of

distinguish between those so that we can understand that if you have had

traumatic or bad experiences with spirituality or religion, that doesn't

have to be how you carry forward.

There can be a new definition, a

new way to look at it that still connects that spiritual

self.

Yes, absolutely.

And, and really as

we.

Engage in spirituality is

really like I coming back to compassion, but really

having that connection

with ourselves to

uncover whether this is working for

me or not.

and you know, I had, I was really interested in Buddhism

and, and from a very young age,

very interested in Buddhism and continue to be interested in

Buddhism, but I had to take a break

about

two years off from Buddhism because I

realized that.

from a nervous system perspective, I just could

not do the eightfold path or do the, you know, I just, I was

using

the, the wisdom, the beautiful

wisdom

of

Buddhism as another, um, yard stick

of how much I'm failing, you know, And I simplified.

The teachings of Buddhism in a way, like I'm just, you know, I'm just not having

right view when actually what I really needed to do is really support building

internal capacity to be able to be with myself and to be with the present moment.

and I had to do a lot of, you know, I did somatic experiencing to

really be able to experience a present moment fully, because it's

not actually easy and it's one of those terms that people talk

about, you know, being present.

But it actually is a journey in, in and of itself to be able to,

have the direct experience of what's happening and not freak out.

That was my experience

anyway.

I can relate to that.

I think, I love in our world now that more of the language we're using, like

even on this podcast is more recognizable.

Like more people are talking about it.

And a lot of times some of the language we're using for

spirituality is very surface, right?

Like people haven't had the direct experience

with it.

And so like you, like you said, being present is a great example

of that because, I try to

practice presence a lot and

, it's like

a constant like challenge, a constant skill building.

And some moments I have it and I'm like, Ooh, ooh, this is the direct experience

at the moment, and then I lose it again.

And so, you know, all of these things I

think, Is important to understand that these are practices and

you know, these are things that we're gonna spend a lifetime

exploring.

And that, you know, some

of these

things are really difficult, especially in a world that

has

taught us that the opposite is what's valued.

That the opposite is how we should operate.

And so, you know, we're having to learn completely new skills

that open us up to vulnerability.

Mm-hmm.

that really opened us up to things we've ignored, things we haven't

healed trauma that we have not named, and so I think all of these pieces are

really important, to acknowledge as we're

approaching a spiritual

journey.

Yes, absolutely.

And it's, you know, it's easy for people to sort of say,

just be vulnerable, you know?

But that actually is, that has been a really.

Massive journey for me because vulnerability felt like annihilation,

Yeah,

and, and even, you know, one of the core aspects of

mindfulness is being able to welcome whatever's present in our experience,

whether that's big emotions or not.

Well, if your nervous system feels so in threat constantly,

then how can you welcome.

These big emotions like anger and despair and, and

so that, that embodiment

piece and sort

of being able, like if, if spirituality's not working for you or you are not

able to

sort of

do the things

, you know, that, that are like, um,

talked about as, as the

spiritual path.

To

me, it's like, really, It's not your

fault.

You know?

It's, it's actually just a journey of coming home that takes, that

is a slow journey, you know?

I was like, Took my type a , high achieving, I'm gonna

be the best spiritual person.

And I, the breaks were put on really quickly, you know, Um, because I realized

that actually there was, there was a, lot of work to be done, to be able to

inhabit and embody myself in the present

moment.

Mm-hmm.

And rather than making myself wrong, which I did for a long

time, it's like just, well, of course, you know, there's things that have happened

to me and you know, there's things that have, um, that have been difficult.

So, of course my nervous systems hypervigilant for danger and danger

might be, you know, a big emotion because perhaps I haven't had the

experience of being held in that, you know, in unconditional love.

I mean, we could, we could spend a whole

entire

podcast talking about like the sympathetic and parasympathetic

systems and the nervous system.

And you know, I, I think sometimes when we struggle to practice some of the spiritual

practices, so maybe that's meditation.

Maybe if you try meditation, you just can't do it.

You can't sit there, you can't, you know, do it for long periods of

time without constantly thinking, or it's just uncomfortable.

Sometimes there is steps

prior.

To those practices, you know, that will be more conducive to connecting you to

your essential self and to connecting you to something bigger than yourself.

I wanna kind of steer in before we wrap up today.

Like, okay, we talked kind of about what spirituality is, what

grounded spirituality is, but.

How do we start practicing that?

Where do we start?

Right?

And so some of you may already have a very established spiritual practice and it's

working for you, and that's fantastic.

But I think for some of us, if we don't have that regular practiced kind

of spiritual component or everything

we've tried hasn't worked for us.

where can we start?

Yes.

Oh my goodness.

It's such a great question and I think, you know, it starts with.

Creating space

for us To be

with

ourselves and in whatever form that?

takes, like I would say, even though I teach meditation, I'm

not actually a natural meditator at all.

I've got such a busy

mind, So, so letting go of any

rules about what it needs to look like, but ultimately, The goal is to

create space for yourself and to connect with yourself.

And so whether

that is, so I find

going for a 30 to

45 minute walk is really

useful because the first 20 minutes is all the thoughts happening,

and then eventually after

20 minutes, they.

Ease.

And I

always do those walks

without listening to anything.

That's been

my new thing because then I can hear

myself,

you know, that's where a lot of internal wisdom is shared for me.

And in the shower of course,

as well,

. So, so it's sort of

And, you know, I even love, I love Oracle cards as a way to connect.

I love guided yoga nidra.

I love embodiment practices, dancing, singing.

You know, listening to music, you know, there's, there's many different

avenues in which that we can connect with ourselves and and journaling.

Oh my goodness.

I know you love journaling.

Journaling is just, yeah, such a amazing way to connect with ourselves and also

wisdom.

Accessing wisdom is just such.

For me, and I don't know, you know, I'm sure many people can relate to

that as well, but accessing wisdom through different teachers, and I

really love Pema Chodron's a really wonderful teacher, especially when you're

sort of starting out on the journey.

And Tara Brock as

well.

And e Kar Tolly.

So just they're, they're some of my favorite teachers, Judith Blackstone.

So there's, accessing wisdom to me just helps me to just move beyond

the thinking, mind and connecting.

What about you?

I'd love to

hear about you.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I think you really hit on, on something that's so

important to me, which is that creating space component, right?

We can't practice spirituality without space.

So, you know, in our normal day to day, we're often like on a clock going from

thing to thing, working at our to-do list, worrying about the future in the

past, like there is, and there's no space.

Well, I think we can't truly connect to ourselves in a pressure cooker.

It doesn't work that way.

It doesn't happen.

So I think creating space in a number of ways where you're able

to just be with whatever you're experiencing is really powerful.

Now, you know, even when I was doing all of my business programs, I.

I didn't talk about spirituality, but I put all these practices into play

in every single program I taught.

And some of the ways I started people out

with contemplation or space or connecting to themselves was journaling.

Was going for a walk in nature without headphones, without a podcast in their

ears.

And you

know, I think those things are really important.

And then I used to

have people go to like a coffee shop and I'd say just go to a coffee

shop and

sit there for

two hours.

That's all I want you to do.

You can bring paper and pen if you want, but

nothing else.

Don't get on your phone, double just watch the world around you or

feel whatever you feel or whatever.

But

just, just be there and that is the

hardest experience.

I mean, people will come back

to me and be like, That's impossible, Sonya.

I can't do it.

I'm like, Just try it again.

Just try it again.

I, I promise you'll get to a

point where you won't be able to live

without that time again.

Right?

Like once you taste it, once you feel it once, once,

it actually kind of get past that initial resistance, that initial

fear, and then you, you have a direct connection with what it

feels like to just be present, whatever that looks like for you.

You

can't live without it.

Again, it's like that reference point is

absolutely

essential.

absolutely

essential.

Like I could just, I really don't think that you can even connect

with yourself without space.

I just don't think it's really possible.

And, and I know myself, you know, I'm just such a learner and I can feel

in my body when I've just consuming too much , and that's like a, a

signal to just stop everything and.

Reconnect and, you know, and, and that that reconnection, especially when we're

first starting, can be kind of alarming in a way because we can go, Oh my gosh,

look at all these thoughts that I'm having about myself and about the world.

And that can feel

painful.

Mm-hmm.

just, that's how default mode network.

So when we're actually at rest is when our mind just go.

So kind of expecting that that actually is our experience.

And I think a lot of people.

Believe that spirituality or meditation is about being clear of thoughts?

No.

it's actually just being mindful.

That's right.

That is absolutely true.

You know, I often teach my clients over the years the candle exercise.

I don't know if we ever talked about that.

You know, years ago, but you know, the candle exercise is basically like

you, you put a candle, you can use anything where you can focus on it.

You have a piece of paper in front of you, you have a pen, and every time you

veer your attention away from the candle, you bring your attention back to the

flame and you put a little mark, little check mark or whatever on your paper.

And for so long everyone thought that, you know, the.

Outcome of this process was supposed to be less checks, right?

Less check marks, less leaving the candle flame, you know,

more focus on the candle flame.

But what happens is you get to more and more layers of awareness.

Of where your attention is drawn away from what you're trying to focus on.

And so what actually happens is as you get better at the candle exercise,

you have a ton more marks, right.

Like .And I think that's such a great example of how a lot of

spirituality is not being calm all the time, or it's not, you know, like

not having thoughts or it's not, you know, we think that there's like some

outcome like that, but instead it's.

More awareness and more mindfulness about what?

What's always been there.

And you know, like it was really funny when I first did the candle

exercise.

This was like, I don't know, more than a decade ago.

and I was practicing it and practicing it and

practicing it.

and it was really interesting because as I

peel back layers of my mind,

I started to recognize that like I was having arguments in the back of my mind.

They were probably running.

All the time, but I didn't hear them right.

I didn't hear them.

I didn't pay attention to them.

And as I started to free all of that, I started to become

more aware of all of that.

Then I could have a little bit more of a still mind, right?

I could have more control over my attention.

And so, You know, I think that we have to talk about this because

so often, you know, it kind of reminds me of like, inbox zero.

You know, like a lot of people are trying to like, get their emails to zero.

I feel like in spirituality they're trying to get their thoughts to zero.

that is not

reality.

that's not

realistic.

That is not realistic at all.

And you know, if someone finds the answer that let me know, but I, But really the,

the, like you said, the intention is about being aware of what was already there

before we were doing any of these things.

It's just that we become, we, we grow in our, awareness and we grow in our ability.

Notice it with humor and compassion and you know, Oh, look at that, you

know, self criticism is here again.

And just connect back in with what's important with us.

So we don't, don't resist all of those thoughts.

We don't judge ourselves it and all that.

It's actually just about then going, Oh, look at all that content.

And then connecting with, with what's required from, from us In

that moment.

A hundred percent.

And I, I think that, you know, kind of like we've talked about before,

I think compassion is a really important practice of spirituality.

It's a whole path to spirituality and, you know, if.

If you want to take nothing else from this, if you just wanna

practice a little more compassion

with yourself, right?

Don't even worry about compassion for others.

Like, don't

even

worry about that.

If you just wanna practice a little more

compassion with yourself, that

takes you down a whole spiritual journey that connects you to that,

essential self And something bigger than

yourself automatically.

so there's very

simple

things you can do to

reconnect to

your

spiritual realm, but you have to create the

space.

Yes, absolutely.

And you know, there's a, there's a great quote by Karen Armstrong that talks about

compassion being the true test of our

spirituality.

When we can be compassionate with ourselves and others, that is the test.

It's not accessing higher realms or anything like that.

In my personal experience, it's really, it's really that .You know,

how can we be, that's how we know whether we're making progress.

Yes, that's right.

And compassion for self and for others, right?

Like it's both.

And so, cuz I know so many people who are so compassionate with others and

not compassionate with themselves.

And so it really is that, that key is both

Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly.

Well, this has been an amazing conversation.

I could talk about this all day.

Anything that you want to, you know, kind of finish saying.

Any last thoughts before we wrap up for today?

gosh, it's, it's been, yeah.

So beautiful talking to you about this topic and you know, I really, I really

think if people are just curious, then just follow that curiosity and, you

know, start small, you know, go for walks without listening to something . You

know, like I find that that can be the best spiritual practice for me every day.

Because then we get to hear that little voice that's so wise within

us, and that's our essential self

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

Thank you Melin, and thank you all for listening, and we will see you next week.

I hope you enjoyed the show.

If you wanna learn more about this topic, head over to Belinda ha.com.

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classes and events have an amazing day, and we'll see you next time.